 A skeptic convinced--Rosetta Stone lives up to its billing |
| Review Date: August 8, 2008 |
| Reviewer: Kathy Grace, Austin, TX, United States |
Most people would agree that immersion is the best way to learn a language--but let's face it, a lesson spent in front of a computer isn't really immersion. On the flip side, how can you teach a language so different from English without using English to explain the rules? I have to admit, Rosetta Stone Japanese has surpassed my expectations.
Let me spell out where I'm starting from and what I was hoping for, since this kind of product, more than most, will be rated largely depending on your expectations for it. I got interested in learning Japanese about four or five years ago, largely prompted by my pre-teen's interest. We bought some books on kana (the syllabaries), a dictionary, a book on kanji, even a couple of grammar books. And then got overwhelmed. The grammar is SO different, the syllabaries are easy to learn but written kana has no inter-word spacing, so without the familiar "word boundaries" a sentence is just one long string of symbols. We don't know any native Japanese speakers willing to descend to essentially a kindergarten level. And listening to Japanese spoken in movies or trying to read manga? Fuhgeddaboudit!
Fast forward to today. Pretty much all I remember is (part of) one syllabary. A, i, o, something, something, ka, ki, ku, something, ko, sa, shi, su, something, something, ta, ti, no that's not right, shi, tu? uhh ... well, you get the idea. Not much in the way of retention! Just enough, however, to dive right in to Rosetta Stone. Their premise, of course, is that you do all your learning in the target language. There are several mechanisms:
You see a picture, you see a written phrase, you hear it spoken. Repeat it correctly if you can (replay the audio as often as you please).
You see four pictures. You see and hear a phrase. Click the picture it names.
You hear a phrase. Can you choose the correct picture solely by hearing it?
... and so on. There are enough variations on this theme to keep your mind busy. The photos are colorful, attractive, professional (and very multicultural!) There are short lessons focusing on the characters and their sounds, but most of the learning is illustrated with these slick photos.
So, it should be fairly easy to understand how RS teaches vocabulary, pronunciation, even some reading. See a picture, see or hear the word, it's not that hard to learn it. But grammar? Japanese grammar is quite unlike English. The function of words in a sentence is determined, not so much with case and position like English, but rather with helper words called particles. [Subject] wa [direct object] o [verb] is a very simple example. The "wa" means "this is what we're talking about" and the "o" denotes a direct object. Or here's another: in English, we use noun phrases all the time... stringing together nouns where some of them act as adjectives. "Dog house" doesn't mean "dog and house," it means "dog's house;" "girl child" means "child who is a girl." Neither dog nor girl are adjectives, but they're used like adjectives, see? In Japanese, you can do that with the "no" particle, like this: [noun] no [noun].
Now, imagine explaining that without using English!
Well, they do it. You are given the photos and the phrases, and they highlight (with red characters) the parts that are different, or in some cases the parts that are the same. "Onna no ko" is girl child. "Otako no ko" is boy child. "Onna no hito" is woman. "Otoko no hito" is man. After you get familiar with the words for woman, man, boy, girl, you start on sentences like "the woman is eating," "the boy is running." Hey, where did that "wa" come from? Ohh, I see... Then they do simple sentences with direct objects: the boy is reading a book, the woman is drinking tea. The "o" particle makes its appearance. You infer the rules from the examples, just like children do. It's really rather nicely done!
I'm of course in no position to judge the purity or otherwise of the speakers' accents, but they're surely more helpful than reading about vowel sounds in a book. The voice recognition (VR) is adjustable (freer or more strict), although I'm not sure how well that's calibrated. I do know that the very first word you have to pronounce, konnichiwa, has a Japanese N, which is its own syllable--in other words, "ko-n-ni-chi-wa" is a five syllable word, not four--and the VR did NOT pass me when I tried to say it ko-ni-chi-wa (without the extra N). I'm surprised by how comfortable the speaking and listening is becoming--especially since those are my weak areas in language learning. The package comes with a headphone/mic set, by the way, so you don't have to buy one before starting. There is a set of "audio supplement" CDs, but as they're simply repetitions of the phrases you hear in each unit and lesson, I myself don't think they're worth the $$ difference.
On each screen, you have the option to see the kana (syllabary); kanji, the Chinese-based characters; kanji plus furigana, which basically means little hiragana over each kanji to tell you how it's spoken; and (shhh) romaji, which is Englished kana syllables. Try to avoid using the romaji, as nearly everyone says that it's a terrible habit and a habit you'll soon wish you had never started. In this respect, here's my advice: take a day or two to learn the hiragana before you start this program. There are fewer than 50 syllables, and even a rudimentary acquaintance with them will enhance your Rosetta Stone experience A LOT. Jimi's Book of Japanese: A Motivating Method to Learn Japanese (Hiragana) is a cute hiragana book with the bonus of little tidbits of cultural knowledge, and Kana Pict-o-Graphix: Mnemonics for Japanese Hiragana and Katakana is a pocket-sized book with effective memory cues. But back to the screen... whichever type of character display you select will be remembered until you change it again or quit the program. It defaults to kana, which is a sensible decision IMO.
A few other things about the interface: Reading the user guide made it look a lot more complicated than it is. Basically, there aren't too many controls you have to worry about. Just take the path they suggest through the program. I will say, however, that I'm repeating each lesson a few times, because I know my short-term memory is getting shorter every day. One oddity is that it will forward you to Lesson 2, then circle back to pick up some other activities from Lesson 1. They don't explain why, but I suspect this is an attempt at an SRS, Spaced Repetition System, which helps reinforce what you've learned and (in theory anyhow) help move it from short-term to long-term memory. If knowing this disturbs you, you can choose your lesson activities from a complete menu. Do them in any order you please, repeat them as often as you want, you're the boss. But really, you might not even notice that the Lesson 2 path contains Lesson 1 activities. After choosing my own path for a few lessons, I have now settled into their path without a problem. Each activity has a "you are here/navigation" bar at the bottom, showing the number of frames in the activity and which one you're on at the moment. A "grade" icon at bottom right will show you how many you got right and wrong and your percentage. If you revisit an activity, the frames you missed will be colored differently so you can go right to them.
Here's the organization of the whole program: 3 levels > 4 units/level > 4 lessons/unit > 9 activities/lesson. An activity ("listening and reading", "pronunciation," "vocabulary") takes around 10 minutes, sometimes 5, sometimes 15. You can see that there's quite a bit of instruction in this set.
Writing is probably the weakest link in the program. Obviously, Rosetta Stone has judged that the percentage of their users who have graphic tablets or some other touch device is too small to cater to, so "writing" means "looking at pictures of writing." Better than nothing, I guess, but if you picked up a pen and started trying to imitate those characters on paper, you'd probably benefit. Again, having a book on the kana, like one of the ones mentioned above, will be of use here, to teach you the stroke order (important for proper writing). The Kana Flashcards from White Rabbit Press would be a good alternative.
It's far too late to make this long story short, so I'll just say: If you're a beginner who is interested in learning Japanese and willing to dedicate short blocks of time to it on a regular basis, I think you'll really enjoy the Rosetta Stone package. |
A Challenge, but Fun
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| Review Date: August 17, 2008 |
| Reviewer: Stephanie Sane, from the Asylum |
Japanese is not an easy language to learn. Let's face it, they're all hard. I was fortunate as my sister and I were kinda raised all over the world. We both speak fluent French and Spanish, both do a smattering of Italian and Portuguese, because my old dad really wanted his girls to be world wise.
Though we mostly lived and traveled in Europe, we did spend a summer in Japan, mostly touring off. We were seven, my sister and I, so I didn't really spend much time with the Japanese language. Yes, I got Arigato, down, but not much else, though, of course, one couldn't help but notice that they had a completely different writing system.
So now I'm a bit older and have a chance to learn some Japanese via Rosetta Stone. First off, if you're going to learn Japanese, I'd recommend a beginning Hiragana and Katagana workbook and even a first year Kanji workbook. There are several good ones out there. I've also invested in Marlene Goodman's Let's Learn Japanese Picture Dictionary. It's rated for children between Four and Eight, fun and very helpful. And it goes very well with the Rosetta Stone. At least it does for me.
So how do I like the Rosetta Stone for Japanese? Well, having actually been immersed in a few foreign languages when I was a child, I have to say that I like it a lot, though I imagine it's a bit harder for students of English than Spanish or French would be, because the grammar is so different and I think you probably have to spend more time on your listening and repeating skills than you would have to with a language that uses the Roman alphabet.
I don't recommend more that forty-five minutes or a hour a day with the program, because I think you need time for the lessons to sink in before moving on. Actually a half hour in the morning and again in the afternoon, if you can swing it, would be good, I think anyway.
And the most important thing about the Rosetta Stone is that it doesn't make Japanese a chore. Just take it slow and easy and let it gradually sink in. Rome wasn't built in a day, after all. |
Expensive, but worth it.
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| Review Date: July 24, 2008 |
| Reviewer: traderje, Through the Window |
The first thing you notice when you look at this product in a catalog, at least I did, is the price. Whew! Compared to bargain bin language software, it's a bite. After getting my hands on the Rosetta Stone offering, I think you get what you pay for. I am reviewing the Japanese version of the software from a package with all three levels.
Again, sometimes the bargain bin products give you a lot of CD's, too, but Rosetta Stone gives you a lot of useful CDs. Also, the extra cd's from bargain bin packages I've tried didn't seem to have much more depth than the first one you install.
With Rosetta, you get some printed manuals, a nice yellow box to put everything in, a collection of software CD's by progress level (3 levels), a USB headphone/microphone set (okay that could be a little better but its acceptable), and 3 whole sets of audio companion CDs (12 total) by progress level.
When you set up the software, you get to pick what you want to emphasize the most: reading and writing, speaking and listening, or detailed speaking and listening. I chose reading and writing first. It's enough for me now, and I'm working through it. The other parts of the language aren't ignored, it's just supposed to emphasize your selection in the lessons. You can go back and try the other choices to see how it's different. I'm going to.
This is a total immersion system; i.e., you'll not be using your native language at all (except for operating the software.) Boy, is it a tough swim at first, especially with an alphabet that is foreign, too. But you'll get the hang of it pretty quick; that's where the repetition is needed. It's not a boring, static, repetition of a word and then the English translation. No, it's a form of the word or phrase with variations of setting in pictures to get your mind to induce meaning and context. There's a lot going on there, it's not as simple as it sounds, even if simple to use.
I am surprised at how quickly my progress is, but I'm going to have to go over some of it again. Nothing wrong with that.
There are four units in level 1: a "Core" or the Basics, Friends and Family, Work and School, and Shopping. I've jumped ahead to the other Rosetta Stone cd's for the purpose of this review, and they indeed look a good deal more advanced than the first lessons. Level 2 had: Travel, Past and Future, Friends and Social Life, and Dining and Vacation. The units of the third level were: Home and Health, Life and World, Places and Events, and Talking About the World.
I am really looking forward to working up to the section on discussing politics. Unless you are already trained in the language, you will have lots of room to grow.
I think it's fair with the price, to compare it to a community college class. Of course, it is not literally as good as real human interaction, but it has the very real advantage of being available whenever you are ready. And for people who are shy, or have trouble with languages... nobody is going to laugh at you. No parking a mile from campus, no high priced books that depreciate by the end of the semester... you get the picture.
So, if you've got the means, or you can talk your employer into getting it for you, I think it is a reasonably satisfactory value for the money if you go into it with an open mind and dedication. [You can buy each level separately, too, which might make it easier on the budget, but I think the complete package is the best deal if you can afford it.] |
Excellent. Period.
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| Review Date: March 30, 2009 |
| Reviewer: wart, baltimore, md United States |
I purchased this product approximately 5 months ago. For about 2 of those months it sat on my shelf as I took one other reviewers EXCELLENT advice and learned the kana before beginning. I, too, recommend that, and I recommend Michael Rowley's kana Pictograph's for that purpose;Kana Pict-o-Graphix: Mnemonics for Japanese Hiragana and Katakana.
Beyond that, when I began using this product, I was an absolute beginner. I have taken no classes and do not plan to. This review is written with that type of student in mind; the SOLO, self-directed, highly motivated learner who is teaching themselves.
I am using products in addition to this product. A Barron's Grammar book;Japanese Grammar (Barron's Grammar Series), and a hiragana writing book; Kodansha's Hiragana Workbook: A Step-by-Step Approach to Basic Japanese Writing. Just FYI.
I run Vista (happily) and also Norton. I had a month's, AN ENTIRE MONTH'S, worth of technical support problems once I attempted to install this program. What a nightmare!!!!. I mention this to add that, if you do have problems, their technical support will work with you until YOU give up. In my case, oddly and bizarrely, we had absolutely exhausted EVERY option, and they sent me out ALL THREE replacement discs, and they worked fine. Zero problems with the replacement discs. Somehow, I had three bad discs, all three, in a wierdo coincidence. But I got it solved, and they never gave up. online chats, emails, phone calls, top-tier tech support, finally personal attention from a lady who stuck with me the rest of the way.
I'm now half-way through the 2nd chapter(out of 4) of the first disc. It is alot of work on my part, but I really feel like Rosetta is doing it's part, and I'm extremely happy with it.
I also feel like, even though there are countless free websites and excellent resources to be had on the internet, that have been put up there by helpful sharing individuals, that I FULLY appreciate and am glad for, and am using myself...I also feel...that Rosetta is previously trod upon ground. Meaning, this software is put together by teams of who knows how many individuals and qualified educators, and proofreaders, and all kinds of people making decisions on what to include and how best to approach interpreting Japanese for an english audience, and this software has gone through probably countless revisions, and gotten more consideration than any other program out there, so...I feel best using THIS software as a BASE, a base on which to put other resources I might want to use, LIKE those individuals websites or the books I mentioned before.
I highly recommend this product. Stick with it to the end. It will give you your money's worth if you apply yourself to it. |
Dynamic Immersion is Working for Me
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| Review Date: August 17, 2008 |
| Reviewer: Mallory Smith, Tallahassee, Florida |
I've been using Rosetta Stone for about a month now and I have to say that it really does simplify learning a language. Actually, it teaches you like you learned your crib language. Well, not quite, but it tries, sort of.
There are no English words in these lessons, you learn your new language by associating words in your new language you don't know (yet) with photos of things you know. The new word for run with the spoken phrase, pictured with a boy running for example.
You learn through Rosetta Stone's speech recognition system. You work on reading and pronouncing your new words and you get feedback immediately, which helps to make the new language sink in.
Rosetta Stone calls their learning method Dynamic Immersion and it seems to work. At least it's working for me, in two languages. |
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